On the 6th October 2011, John Adair joined CMI for a live question and answer session at the CMI Management Book Club. You can see the transcript of the session below.
CMI: Hello everyone and welcome to this very exciting Q&A with management guru John Adair.
John Adair Hi CMI, I am now online.
CMI: Hello John, and welcome to this CMI Q&A. I know our members are very excited and we have our first question already.
2:19
Matt: Hello John, thanks for giving up your time today. Given the news today, what are your thoughts on Apple? How will they survive without Steve Jobs?
John Adair: Matt, thanks for that question. I think that Steve Jobs was a great leader and he will be greatly missed. But Apple Mac - the creator of the machine that I am writing this on - is also a great company. I think that his lasting monument will be the sustained success of Apple Mac. I speak as a loyal customer!
CMI: It will certainly be an interesting time, and a good test of their succession planning.
CMI: The questions are coming in thick and fast now, this next one from Colin.
Colin: Why is it that we have so many professors and universities "teaching" us about leadership and entrepreneurship when most have little experience of the business world?
John Adair: That is another very good question. The trouble is that a whole leadership industry has now grown up with numerous people offering products and services with false claims of knowledge. As you say, many of these so called teachers lack any experience of leadership. There is an African proverb that says that the best teachers of leadership are leaders. So I would advise you to always look at the track record of those who claim to be teachers of leadership. You only have to reflect that many of the banks involved in the recent crash have spent millions of pounds on these bogus leadership programs.
CMI: Some sage advice there John. We're back to Apple for the next question, this time from Rachel.
Rachel: Talking of Apple more reference is being made to creativity and innovation in leadership - how important do you think this is?
John Adair: I have always taught that leadership is like a house in a street which has certain neighbours living next door. Those neighbours include decision making, problem solving and innovative thinking. You can probable identify some other houses in the same street. So it is impossible really to separate leadership from creativity and innovation. Just to be clear, creativity is about having new ideas and innovation is about creating the team work to bring those ideas successfully to the market place. Steve Jobs exemplifies both these capacities.
CMI: He's certainly been one of the most innovative managers we've ever seen.
CMI: The next question comes from Fred and focuses on your classic model.
Fred Banham: Hi John, re your classic model of Team, Individual and Task if pressed do you regard, one of the three as the most important, and do you see any tensions when supporting all three "
John Adair: Thanks, Fred. Regarding the classic model, I think what we now know is that the model is a universal one and has lead to the great discovery of the generic role of leader. It is a Venn diagram, as you know. It is important that the Task circle is always on the top, for it has a degree of priority. Then the Team and Individual circles come beneath it. Although the Task circle does carry that priority there are certain situations where a wise leader will give priority to one of the other two circles. For example, if your party is high up on Everest and an individual breaks his leg, then your priority becomes Individual Needs and the Task Needs takes second place. In my teaching there will always be tensions between the three overlapping circles, but there need not be any conflict - such is the teaching of the model.
CMI: Certainly makes sense that flexibility is key. We have a question now from one of our studying members that's of interest to me personally having met with Nick Obolensky earlier this week to discuss adaptive leadership with him.
Level 5 Diploma students: How do you see adaptive leadership contributing to innovative change in public sector provision within a climate of economic austerity?
John Adair: Can you help me? What is adaptive leadership and how does it differ from leadership?
CMI: Hi John, adaptive leadership (at least in my own mind) involves empowering people to make as many decisions for themselves as they can. Bottom up leadership rather than traditional hierarchical top down leadership.
John Adair: Thanks for that. In fact I don't recognise what you call hierarchical top down leadership as being traditional. And I would argue that what you describe as enabling people to make as many decisions for themselves as they can within the situation has always been a core element of the world's body of knowledge about leadership, that is the content of my own teaching. In fact I think adaptive leadership is just another American brand in an overcrowded market!
CMI: Yes, that may well be true. Speaking of sending decisions down the chain however, it leads nicely into this question by Gratton.
Gratton Mulcrow: What are the particular challenges and solutions faced in leading a team that is regionally rather than centrally based
CMI: Whilst John's answering that question, just a quick message to all of our readers. We're getting a lot of questions posted and will try and get through them all, thanks for your patience.
John Adair: If, as I imagine, you are an operational leader, that is you are leading a significant part of a business that is regionally based, with a number of team leaders reporting to you, and you are part of a larger organisation with a central headquarters, then you have two challenges. First you need to lead the part that you are entrusted with as an action centred leader (The Three Circles). And then you need to be an effective member of the strategic leaders national team. Perhaps I should add a third challenge, which is to be a good colleague to the other heads of the regional branches or divisions. For at work we are always in three roles: leader, team member and subordinate. Your challenge is to be a 100% in all three roles.
CMI: Thanks for that John. With Apple again forefront of our minds, Fiona has a question here on succession planning.
Fiona: We have a robust succession plan in place in our organisation but are struggling to come up with practical things we can do to help successors understand what they need to do to be leaders. We're planning a competency model so they can figure out where they sit within that and career development workshops, but do you have any other advice?
John Adair: Fiona, I am delighted to hear that you have a succession plan in place as so many organisations even fall at that first fence. I am horrified to hear that you are thinking of inflicting the competency approach on those fortunate enough to be considered for promotion to roles in leadership. The competency approach is a busted flush. What you should be doing, and I know I am sounding rather prescriptive here. Is giving those near to promotion the opportunity to learn the generic role of leader (at the team, operational or strategic levels, which ever is appropriate). Then you need to do two other things. First to get people to work out for themselves how to apply that generic role in their new positions. Secondly, to appraise and appreciate their own particular capacities and limitations in the light of the impending role, together with an action plan for bringing themselves up to the required standard. Sounds easy but it is one of the hardest challenges of the leadership trainer to do that.
CMI: Thanks for that John, getting the right people in is so important, hopefully your advice will help Fiona with that process.
CMI: Our next question is an oldie but a goodie and gets to the heart of the nature/nurture debate.
Emily: Hi Jon, do you think great leaders are born or bred?
John Adair: Hi Emily, I think that this is one question that is now fairly well answered in the world's body of knowledge on leadership that I mentioned a little earlier. In brief what is required is a certain potential for leadership and that is inborn just in the same way that one's musical aptitude is innate. But then by a combination of early experiences and - if you get it right leadership training - that initial vital spark can be turned into effective leadership ability but it takes time and skill to do that. So both the English proverb 'Leaders are born and not made' and also the West African proverb 'You are not born a leader you become one' are equally true according to which aspect you are considering. I hope this helps and will encourage organisations to develop the latent leadership talent which is one of their greatest assets.
CMI: A practical question here from Max on how to manage in his small business.
Max Price: Hi John, we are a relatively small business that has expanded quickly. Lots of new people bedding in to a tried and trusted system. Any tips on how to maintain a strong, sales orientated culture when there is no way to "touch" everybody throughout the day
John Adair: Max, I do feel for you as I am the son of a former Field Sales Manager and I was brought up in a house where my father - who I now know was a natural leader in this field - was struggling to do just what you are faced with. He lead by example - his own sales always topped the list. But he also found time to go out in the field with each of his sales reps, both to coach them on the job and also to infect them with his own values and spirit. In this way they could be trusted when they were far apart to do a great job. As somebody said to me recently who remembered him, he had the gift of bringing the best out of people. If that is what your sales team say about you I shall never worry about your own leadership competence. Good luck!
CMI: Hopefully that will have helped a bit Max. Do please keep us updated on how things go on the CMI community.
CMI: The next question is a very relevant one for CMI as it centres on leadership development.
Tav: do you believe in Management Development Programmes and feel that they are a good investment of time by a company? Do you believe they will fail if the Corporate Leadership Team are not behind them?
John Adair: This is one of those 'it all depends' kind of questions. Personally, I think any sensible organisation today will have a leadership development strategy, which being a strategy will have more than one part to it. In an organisation of any size that will include internal leadership programs as well as sending people on external selected programs as individuals. There are however two essentials you should bear in mind. First, you need the commitment of the Chief Executive and the top leadership team behind your strategy. Secondly, you need a specialist within the organisation who does understand what is required in this field - see my book 'How to Grow Leaders.' Without doing your homework you are in great danger of following the lead of many British companies who are currently waisting large amounts of shareholders money on useless leadership interventions.
CMI: That book will be available to borrow from the CMI library folks. Certainly one to check out.
Clare:
What can you do if you have a manger who feels threatened by creativity and humour in the workplace?
John Adair: Unfortunately you have the phenomenon of a person who is occupying a leadership role who has not got necessary leadership ability. As I mentioned earlier you cannot separate leadership from creativity, because leadership is about taking people on a journey of positive change and you can't do that without creativity. Only a very arrogant person would imagine that they are the only person who has any good ideas! As for humour, as a leader you should take your role and responsibilities (the Three Circles again), but you should fail to take yourself too seriously. Otherwise it means you lack a sense of proportion, if you see what I mean. All the best!
CMI: Yes, good luck with things Clare. As with all of the questions, do please report back to us on how things go, it would be great to hear from you all.
CMI: We're nearing the end of our session, I think we have time for two more questions. The first comes from Matt.
Matt Rowley: Hi John, Leaders, Managers and just about everyone have pressure to perform, and it's normally during the times of pressure that people 'forget' good practice. Do you have any thoughts on how to handle this?
John Adair: Hi Matt, there are various levels of leadership ability. It is my job to present to you excellence in leadership. And one hallmark of excellence in leadership is the ability to keep calm, cool and collected under pressure. Nobody likes a leader who flaps when things are not going well, or even worse starts blaming other people. If you remain calm it creates a climate in which the tasks can still be achieved in spite of the external pressures. In fact I tend to think that that is what leadership is all about. As the Arabs say, 'Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm.' Just a practical tip, you are allowed to pretend as if you are calm even if internally you feel far from that! For people will judge you by your appearance. That is the secret of courage which isn't the lack of fear but the ability to put a brave face on it so that your soldiers take heart from your example.
CMI: Good response John. Ok, we're into our final question, this time from Rachel.
Rachel: I am a great advocate of ACL - in your experience what is the best method to help a group of people to become a team particularly if they are stuck in the "storming norming stage" so that this model can be effective.
John Adair: There is no instant method of helping a group of individuals to become a team, still less to move from being a team to becoming a high performance - or great - team. If you are the leader you just have to think constantly in terms of diagnosing the obstacles to team work in terms of the Three Circles. For example, is it lack of clarity about the task which is preventing the team from working together? Or are there tensions or divisions between individuals or subgroups that needs resolving? Or are there individuals whose talents and creativity is not being released for the common good and they feel frustrated? Practical tip: at the right time get your team together, put up the Three Circle model and ask them to spend twenty minutes working in groups of three and ask them to identify ways in which they can become a great team. Lay down only one rule that the first set of changes should be those that they have to personally make themselves, and only then can they list the changes that others - including you as the leader - need to make. Then fix a review date in three months time. Let me have an address so I can send you my invoice!
CMI: Well, firstly I'd like to extend a huge thank you to John for giving us an hour (and a bit) of his time to answer questions. It's been incredibly insightful, with some great questions asked.
The event has proved incredibly popular, and a number of questions have not been posted to John during this hour. He has agreed to answer them however offline. The questions, and their answers, will be posted up on the CMI website at the following url
http://www.managers.org.uk/forum/CMI-management-book-club-discussion-for...
CMI: So thank you again to everyone that has contributed to the session. Hopefully those unable to receive an answer to your question during the session should have an answer in the next few days.
Thanks again and we hope to see you again for the next CMI Q&A session, with Bill Lucas on the 24th November at 11-12pm.
As promised, John has answered all of the questions we didn’t have time for during the session. They can be found below.
Additional questions for John Adair
Phil: I have a "friend" who feels he is being managed very poorly, mostly though an absence of management rather than abusive. What would your advice be to him/her?
John Adair: It is said that people lead managers, not jobs. So one option would be for your 'friend' to look for employment elsewhere. Otherwise, more creatively, he / she could try to supplement the poor manager by performing some of his key leadership roles. For example, they could suggest a meeting of the team at which the whole team could review progress on the common task and ask the current manager what he expects from them. This would open the door to suggesting what they expect from the manager! Always remember to give the manager some positive feedback before you come on to the areas which it would be helpful if he changed.
Greg: I am currently studying a foundation degree & require some reference tips regards self development as a leader & manager?
John Adair: The key idea is you should have a clear concept in your mind of the generic role of leader. Against that you can then plot your present capacities and limitations. Seek feedback from others beginning with the positives and then going on to the negatives - the areas for improvement. Make a habit of studying leadership by reading and reflecting on one good book about it every three months. Good luck!
Tara: Do you believe that learning styles have lost their credibility?
John Adair: They never had much credibility for me and they are now generally discredited. For further evidence on that judgement of mind see the Wikipedia article on Learning Styles.
Andy McManus: If junior & middle managers have a management & leadership development strategy, but senior managers lack the vision or desire to sponsor it, how can we persuade the decision makers to come on-board?
John Adair: This step is a very difficult one especially if you happen to be in a subordinate role within that particular organisation. The best hope is to persuade the strategic leaders that one of the functions of their role is to identify and develop today's and tomorrow's leaders. They own the problem not the HR department. For further information on this particular function see my most recent book 'Strategic Leadership.'
Fiona Lander: When helping to develop new leaders I still work with your 3 circles model and find it just as fresh now as when I was first introduced it to many years ago. Why would you say that this model has stood the test of time?
John Adair: The simple answer is that the Three Circles model is true. And truth, like gold, never rusts and never grows old. But it has taken fifty years old to establish that it is no longer a theory but a truth. And the model is the foundation for the generic role of leader, probably the greatest discovery in this field in modern times.
Gemma: When many companies are now aiming to survive rather than thrive in this economic climate, do you think this calls for a different type of leader/leadership behaviour?
John Adair: No, leadership is essentially the same whatever the external conditions. What a crisis or a time of severe difficulty does is to highlight the sense of need for effective leadership. Sadly it can also make you all to aware that those who occupy roles of leadership are actually useless as leaders. There is no more powerful incentive to develop people with true leadership ability.
Guest: Would I be correct in assuming that most of the general principles of leadership learned in my MBA are still fundamentally the same, but directed at the current issues of the day?
John Adair: It all depends on what 'the general principles of leadership' were that you learnt on your MBA course. If they were a concoction of the then current American theories - forget it, they are already out of date. But if they were bedrock leadership principles they will always be current, for human nature doesn't change.
Phil (MBA student): With countless attempts to distinguish the difference between 'leadership' and 'management', terms frequently used interchangeably, what do you see as the critical differences setting them apart, particularly in relation to educational leadership; and how does ‘followership’ feature in your teachings on leadership?
John Adair: The role of leader is generic, and I have now mapped out what it is. Being a manager is one form it takes, just as being a military commander or an orchestral conductor are two forms. By analogy think of leadership as being 'fruit' and the three examples I have given as being 'apple', 'pears', and 'bananas.' Incidentially the verbs - leading and managing - do have different connotations and should not be regarded as synonyms. Followership is a fairly meaningless word invented in America. It is meaningless because the suffix - ship can mean either (1) a role or (2) a skill or ability. Being a follower is neither a role or a skill. It also unfortunately suggests loyalty to the person of the leader (think of Hitler), where true leaders want people to be loyal to the common purpose, not themselves. True leaders do not want followers - they treat people as if they are friends and partners in the common struggle. As Field Marshal Montgomery once said to me, "I made my soldiers partners with me in the battle."
Tony Jones: Do you have an opinion on the current trend in the public sector, such as the health service and police to only consider progressing those individuals with degree level education to leadership roles, especially considering some great company visionaries and leaders such as the late Steve Jobs and Richard Branson never graduated?
John Adair: I am a strong believer in equal opportunity when it comes to leadership roles. They should always be genuinely open to those with the best qualifications to leave. No leadership opportunity should be limited to graduates except in certain contexts - such as universities - where it is necessary for the team members to be graduates. If you follow my meaning.
Claire: What can HR departments do to make sure they recruit the best managers/leaders?
John Adair: First, have a clear idea what they are looking for in terms of the role of manager - leader. And then make sure that they offer the leaders that they appoint the opportunity to grow and develop their leadership abilities while they are working for the organisation. In these difficult times no organisation can guarantee to keep a manager forever but the new psychological contract suggest that you should increase the employability of each person that comes to work for you so that moving on is never going to be a threat.
Catherine: hi John, I'm fascinated to hear why you feel the competency approach is a busted flush....
John Adair: What the management consultants did was to interview a lot of people and get them to list a lot of people in leadership roles in an organisation and get them to lists all their 'competencies.' That produced hundreds of items which were then processed through the computer and boiled down to a list of varying lengths which ended up a short list of between a hundred and ten core 'competencies.' For example the NHS spent a million pounds to produce a list of fourteen 'competencies.' These were so general that they were useless and were put away in people's draws and forgotten. To understand what should be done you should follow the analogy of light and colour. As Newton demonstrated light refracts into three overlapping circles - Red, Green and Blue. Then it can be further refracted into the seven colours of the rainbow. On this metaphor I have now given you the generic role of leader - the Three Circles and the seven or eighth key functions. But further down the spectrum the human eye can discern a million different shades of colour. What the management consultants were doing was to make a selection out of the million colours. Hopeless! Always start with the general and work to the particular. Give people the framework or the generic role and functions and then they can work out in their own fields and at their own levels the more concrete competencies or skills that the functions require. For some academic research confirming what I have just said I suggest you consult the articles on the subject by Richard Bolden, the Centre of Leadership, Exeter University, which you can get through google.
Tony Jones: The trend in public sector recruiting and succession planning currently centres around those with degree education. This appears to strike as elitism and forgets that great leaders and visionaries such as Richard Branson and the late Steve Jobs to name just two had no formal qualifications, had they applied to our public sector now for work, they'd be paper sifted. Why are we getting this so wrong?
John Adair: I think I have already answered this one.
Richard: I need to get my head around Leadership but this is hard to do theoretically. It seems best taught me by those I actually lead when they give positive and negative feedback on how well I am doing. But I need to write an assignment with references - and there are so many - who are your favourite gurus that you could recommend I read?
John Adair: I don't have any favourite gurus. It is true that those who are being lead are often good teachers of leadership to their leaders. The reason for that is because we all have in our DNA expectations of what leaders should be, know and do. But you should never rely on your team to teach you your job. I could teach my mother to be a mother to me but I should not have to do so.
Rob: I covered leadership in my MBA, completed 2004. As time moves on would I be correct that the general principles are much the same, although the issues that managers and leaders face have moved on. What do you consider to be the most significant leadership issues/thinking to have arisen over say the last 5/6 years?
John Adair: The most significant issues since 2004 have been our discovery of the seven generic roles of the leader. We have also mapped the functional requirements at operational leadership level. In the much wider context leadership development is now seen to rest upon a universal body of knowledge that embraces the Eastern, Western and Tribal traditions which reach back to our evolutionary past. Modern leadership perspectives are essentially global ones, and therefore a lot of recent American theory is just completely irrelevant. Textbooks on leadership are worth reading because they are the graveyards of yesterdays theories.
Paul Mathel: I have been temporarily appointed to a middle management role for over 12 months, my immediate line managers see my potential and would offer me the job permanently if they were allowed. However, the CEO wants a four part promotion process of application, papersift, assessment centre and interview. I'm very poor at structured interviews. Is this process cost effective in view of me already doing the job and how can I prepare for the interview?
John Adair: I think your CEO is broadly right in introducing that process, though any system like this one should only be a guide and he would be a remarkably unwise person if he did not listen to the judgement of those operational leaders who have already seen you performing in your leadership role. You have nothing to fear, and you should approach it with confidence. You may drop a few marks on the structured interview but you will pick up many more when you start to talk about the job, your achievements so far and your vision for the future of your department. Remember that if your appointment is confirmed after and open and fair selection system you will be doubly confident that you deserve the job and it will enhance your authority with others. Go for it!
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